Curse

MegaVolti · Nov 27, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Blind or knockdown is much more useful in HM then burning. So there is no reason to ever take Tenai's Heat over Churring Earth (for example).

Fire is just a bad element. The damage is not better then in the earth line and the conditions are useless (well, except for the minor knockdown meteors provide).

But fire magic being bad doesn't mean that the Elementalist is bad. Both air and earth magic are awesome in PvE and offer medium damage combined with awesome party support. Yes, the D-Slasher will deal triple your damage, but you take at least a little bit off the enemy health bar while keeping them all blinded or knocked down. That's awesome.
Energy storage allows for some great builds based on the secondary class. In an area with few enchantment removals, Ether Renewal + Infuse Health can replace two monks. No other class can heal that much and at the same time keep Protective Band up on several party members at once - without ever running into energy problems.
For PvP I just love water magic. Snaring Warriors is reason enough to play BK

Elementalists are a great class and there is no reason to create a new character just to be "better".
However, I'd still recommend making 1-2 new chars. Each profession plays different. I'd go for a Monk or Ritualist so you can experience the healers perspective (Monk if you think you like healing, Ritualist if you don't because Ritus can also fill other roles in a party, as Monk you are usually forced to be the healer) and then trying a fighting class. Warriors are the simple choice here, if you like it more complicated I'd go for Assassins (managing your enchantments and all that - therefor you get more damage then the Warror). That should give you a good overview on what guild wars has to offer.

Moloch Vein · Nov 27, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Earth is good. Water is good. Even Air is (with a proper understanding of things) good.

Fire sucks. People running Fire damage dealing builds in HMPvE are retards. I could possibly exclude Mind Blast fuel builds, that's about it.

The best thing an ele can do in HM is shutdown/heal. Leave the killing to the necros and the physicals. They kill good.

Or run Cryway.

Paul_N · Nov 27, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Elementalists are arguably the most flexible class in the game . Their energy storage allows them to chain skills that no other profession could manage , with the rare exception . Though their long term rolls of damage dealer & tank in organized Raids have been generally surpassed by Cry of Pain Mesmers & Perma Shadow Form Assassins ( two professions that were unwanted by most Raid groups for so long ) a well built Ele or two is still highly desirable in just about any group . Unlike the poor unwanted Ritualist who hasn't received any PvE lov'n since Splinter was nerfed .

Tyla · Nov 27, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

[glyph of immolation][steam][slippery ground]

there is more to burning than just degen.

Why would you use Slippery Ground in PvE when you have access to "YMLaD"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse At Large

No, AoE degen and damage + utility is "pro shit". Take Mark of Rodgot + twin heats then add in whatever you want for PvE skills/utility and e-management and you have a viable build for HM.

If that doesn't square with your worldview................I really don't care

AoE degen? Run Ether Nightmare, it's actually fueling something capable of dealing damage, and I wouldn't even run Ether Nightmare, but something capable of dealing more damage. Fire Magic is just beyond terrible in HM, what do PvE skills have to do with Burning, if you want utility run an Ether Renewal Elementalist and fuel omgbigcost skills.

Limu Tolkki · Nov 27, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Blind or knockdown is much more useful in HM then burning. So there is no reason to ever take Tenai's Heat over Churring Earth (for example).

Fire is just a bad element. The damage is not better then in the earth line and the conditions are useless (well, except for the minor knockdown meteors provide).

Dealing dmg fire > earth.

MegaVolti · Nov 28, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

Dealing dmg fire > earth.

Wrong. Compare the yellow numbers, earth and fire AoE spells deal the same amount of damage.

But generally enemy armor against fire is higher then against earth (especially in EotN

) so earth often deals more damage then fire while providing good party support.

There are only 3 exceptions for the "fire totally sux" rule:
1. You need Mind Blast to fuel your build (which most of the time can be done better ...)
2. You play enemies that are specifically vulnerable to fire (e.g. a dungeon filled with plants)
3. Your party has 6 SF-Eles trying to spike stuff (which is kind of bad and weaker then CoP)
And even in those cases, fire isn't all that great. It's just ok.

Earth and air however totally rock in PvE. I don't like water all that much in PvE, but it's awesome for PvP.

Tyla · Nov 28, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Earth and air however totally rock in PvE. I don't like water all that much in PvE, but it's awesome for PvP.

Ehh sorta. Air deals some decent damage and applies a bit of utility through Blinding Flash, although I'd rather tap into Earth and have a shit ton of utility. I mean, abusing the crappy design of HM with Churning Earth never gets old. Saying that, there aren't many skills worth speccing into so you might as well go Earth and use your secondary for other skills, such as Enfeebling Blood, which also powers Glowstone. Oh, and Eruption > Blinding Flash.

BigDave · Nov 28, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

As others have said, Earth is a great element to use in HM PvE. AoE blindness and knockdowns take a huge amount of melee/physical pressure off your party if you drop the spells in the right place. And with use of Mindbender and Ebon Battle Standard of Honor you can usually hit a chain of spells like Eruption --> Unsteady Ground --> Churning Earth before they start to flee the AoE and do some pretty hefty damage at the same time. Eruption takes physical damage to almost non-existent levels very quickly, Unsteady Ground then knocks them down giving you the time to cast Churning Earth so when they try and run out of the AoE they get knocked on their arse again keeping them in the AoE for most of the duration. Works best on physical foes but it works well against casters aswell. They do wand quite a lot and flee triggering multiple knockdowns.

Going nec secondary and using spells like Enfeebling Blood and Weaken Armor is also great on an earth ele. You'll decrease the enemy damage further still and increase that done by your whole team. With Weaken Armor and the Battle Standard it's not uncommon to hit HM casters for 55 each pulse and melee for around 40. With all the knockdowns going around and good timing that's a potential 600-825 AoE actual damage assuming you can keep things in the AoE, while at the same time causing mass multiple knockdowns and AoE blindness, weakness and cracked armour. Pretty good if you ask me.

Vann Borakul · Nov 28, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Fire sucks. People running Fire damage dealing builds in HMPvE are retards. I could possibly exclude Mind Blast fuel builds, that's about it.

Last time I checked, doing 600 damage to several enemies in 4 seconds isn't 'retarded'. The extra armor from enemies in HM does significantly impact fire nukers, but it's not something that can't be overcome with combo potential. Shooting off random fire spells is never the way to go, your spells need to work with each other.

MegaVolti · Nov 28, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vann Borakul

Last time I checked, doing 600 damage to several enemies in 4 seconds isn't 'retarded'. The extra armor from enemies in HM does significantly impact fire nukers, but it's not something that can't be overcome with combo potential. Shooting off random fire spells is never the way to go, your spells need to work with each other.

Ever heard of Cry of Pain? Lol fire magic ...

Moloch Vein · Nov 28, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vann Borakul

Last time I checked, doing 600 damage to several enemies in 4 seconds isn't 'retarded'. The extra armor from enemies in HM does significantly impact fire nukers, but it's not something that can't be overcome with combo potential.

Please display a build illustrating what you mean. I know of one single PvE skill capable of making fire AoE go from abysmal to mediocre, damage-wise... that's all.

Again, show me a build.

the savage nornbear · Nov 29, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ehh sorta. Air deals some decent damage and applies a bit of utility through Blinding Flash, although I'd rather tap into Earth and have a shit ton of utility. I mean, abusing the crappy design of HM with Churning Earth never gets old. Saying that, there aren't many skills worth speccing into so you might as well go Earth and use your secondary for other skills, such as Enfeebling Blood, which also powers Glowstone. Oh, and Eruption > Blinding Flash.

Stoning is leet?

daze · Nov 29, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

Stoning is leet?

In the bible it is. And if the bible says that stoning is ok then its good enough to go in my skillbar.

Windf0rce · Nov 29, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

To be honest, I pretty much quit my PvE Ele that was my main because I realised she was dealing appalling damage in high end hard mode. And the reason I made an Ele was because I wanted to nuke stuff down, no competition from other (ranged) classes, damnit.

I still play Eles in PvP, where people's armor and level are well adjusted to skills' damages, but in PvE hard mode scaled things way too high and it's simply impossible to keep up with that armor and level even at 16-20 magic attribute (cons, glyph).

If I wanted to play half-support, half-damage or shutdown (that Eles got forced into, lately) I would have made a Rit or Necro in the first place, not an Ele. My Ele still sees some play with Cry of Pain, Pain Inverter, Assassin Support and other fun PvE skills, but that's about it. I use her to farm too.

But my new main is a Monk and I don't regret it (heck even him can run Cry of Pain or Assassin's Promise and 'nuke' a bit, lol...).

I also have an Assassin, that I play when I want to deal some REAL damage - that Eles fail to deliver.

MisterT69 · Nov 29, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

[ebon vanguard assassin support][you move like a dwarf!][assassin's promise][fire attunement][glyph of sacrifice][meteor shower][liquid flame][finish him!]

There, dmg+spammable KD (as long as the exhaustion doesn't get to you)
Works in NM and HM, and even better with discord necs, so nuke away.

the savage nornbear · Nov 29, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

the fire skills are unnecessary for that build.

daze · Nov 29, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

the fire skills are unnecessary for that build.

but they sure do make it better. Theres nothing better than raining down multiple meteor showers on a mob.

upier · Nov 29, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Btw - did anyone ever test how much AL the HM foes have?
And how much after dropping Cracked on them? (Outside of the OBVIOUS X-20 that is ...

)

Hyprodimus Prime · Nov 29, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Eles are one of the "trinity." Monks, Warriors and Eles form the base of any good team whether it be PvP or PvE. You can take a group of eles, monks and warriors and roll anything in Guild Wars (course each needs to know what they are doing). The power of an ele comes in his attribute line. Each element packs something very useful to a team. Fire is lost of damage (apart from HM). Fire is used in HA, AB and PvE NM a lot. Air is used in GvG for its blind capability. Blind is good almost anywhwere actually since its such a good condition. Earth is awesome for defencive purposes. Defencive KD and blocking makes damage taken from enemy attackers fall significantly. Damage is decent, although not as high as fire. Water is great for any PvP for its snares. Using the blind/burn/KD build posted, you can add a lot of support. Support is the oil to the machine. Monking is so much easier when blocks are around. With a 50% block on your team, that reduces attacker damage by 50%, also saving the monk energy not to mention the risks of attack inflicted conditions like deep wound, bleeding etc. Being abe to do damage from a range is awesome, you can pick off fleeting foes, or KD so your warrior can kill.

Not only do the Eles inherant elemental attributes rock, Energy Storage is fantastic. Energy Storage gives you a higher energy capacity allowing you to cast-spike. Using Energy storage with other professions opens up a huge list of possibilities. You certainly cant "replace" a profession, but mimicing is very easy. You can be spamming the high energy skills the promary profession cant. ie. Using your energy management skills with Heal Party coupled with Wards and snares can be an asset so large, the enemy mesmer will camp you. Just playing around, you can also spam spirits, be a mesmer, enchantment tank, heal and MM. Each primary will have its attributes higher, but you can compensate with an ele's own flavour.

Eles have powerful solo abilities ranging from mob farming to mission running.

MegaVolti · Nov 29, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

[ebon vanguard assassin support][you move like a dwarf!][assassin's promise][fire attunement][glyph of sacrifice][meteor shower][liquid flame][finish him!]

There, dmg+spammable KD (as long as the exhaustion doesn't get to you)
Works in NM and HM, and even better with discord necs, so nuke away.

[ebon vanguard assassin support][you move like a dwarf!][assassin's promise][earth attunement][glyph of sacrifice][churning earth][eruption][finish him!]

No need for fire. [[Meteor Shower]'s damage isn't better then that of any other DoT spell in the fire or earth line. 120 every 3 seconds or 40 every second doesn't really matter that much. [[Churning Earth] will knoch anything down in HM. Take [[Earthquake] instead of [[Eruption] for a sure knockdown if you miss that one.